Curse

gobla · Jun 18, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Here's a build that i came up with thanks to some inspiration from GWWiki

.

Healing - 11 ( 10+1)
Protection - 11 ( 10+1 )
Divine Favor - 13 ( 11+1+1 )

1 Orison of Healing
2 Reversal of Fortitude
3 Gaurdian
4 Mend Ailment
5 Smite Hex/Holy Veil
6 Glyph of Renewal {e}
7 Divine Spirit
8 Rez Sig/Rebirth/Restore Life/Resurection Chant/Resurrect ( you get the idea ;p )

Weapon:
Defensive/Hale Staff of Enchanting
10% skill recharge and 10% casting time preferred.

Idea is to use GoR followed by DS and use them together to keep DS up at all times. Then just spam 1-2-3 on whoever needs healing, it won't cost you any energy at all. This way you can literally heal forever

. Use 4-5 whenever needed. It works like a charm

, the only problem i encounter with this build is the lack of big heals. Timing RoF right somewhat handles this but that is very hard to do.

But in my overal experience i found it to be a very nice and useable build

.

BowLad21 · Jun 18, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Divine Spirit-Minimum 1 energy, that's the only real problem, I don't know the recharge of GoR either :x, but it seems a medium build. It focuses around energy management, which, while not being a terrible idea, can fall apart at certain parts. Like you said, the lack of a major heal is most damaging. If you threw in Heal Other, at 5 energy per cast, it would be a good last second saver.

jummeth · Jun 18, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

I think its used in conjunction with boon prot as a type of enegy management.

However, the porblem is that every 15 seconds you must do the Glyph + Div Spirit combo, which could cost your life. If your Glyph or Div spirit is inturupted or you have to cop or you get drain/shattered, your also in trouble, since you have no other forms of e-management.

3en heals are just nice ^^ its certainly been tried.

gobla · Jun 18, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by BowLad21

Divine Spirit-Minimum 1 energy, that's the only real problem, I don't know the recharge of GoR either :x, but it seems a medium build. It focuses around energy management, which, while not being a terrible idea, can fall apart at certain parts. Like you said, the lack of a major heal is most damaging. If you threw in Heal Other, at 5 energy per cast, it would be a good last second saver.

GoR and DS can be used together to keep up DS constantly.

From my personal experience i can literally bash my 1 and 2 keys while keeping up gaurdian on myself without running out of energy.

The problem i see with heal other is that it's other ally only. It's not good for self healing.

It's best used keeping 1 person alive in wich case you can just spam 1-2-3 on that person while using GoR and DS when needed. This way it's near impossible to kill the person youre doing this on ( 100hp heal every 3 secs, 50hp heal and next dmg = healing every 2.25 secs and a constant block rate from gaurdian )

keeping 2 persons under heavy fire alive is possible but hard, it basically means OoH spam on the first and RoF spam on the second.

But i see this as more of a variation on the boon prot, it sacrifices the extreme self-healing ( CoP with 4-5 enchant on yourself ) of the boon prot for some extra healing power and E-management. When combining OoH and RoF on the same person you basically heal him for the same but with 2 times the DF bonus, OoH makes up for the boon healling loss but in addition also applies it's own DF healing bonus whereas boon doesnt. And that at the price of 2 energy compared to the 7 energy of a boon prot. Bonus is that you don't have to maintain an enchant, you only have to cast your E-management skill more.

I would say that this definitivly is a viable build for atleast RA and TA, I'm not in a big guild so i can't test it in HA or GvG.

gobla · Jun 18, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by jummeth

I think its used in conjunction with boon prot as a type of enegy management.

However, the porblem is that every 15 seconds you must do the Glyph + Div Spirit combo, which could cost your life. If your Glyph or Div spirit is inturupted or you have to cop or you get drain/shattered, your also in trouble, since you have no other forms of e-management.

3en heals are just nice ^^ its certainly been tried.

no divine boon involved, you use OoH to replicate the divine boon healing bonus, but at the cost of only 1 energy without suffering the -1 energy regen. Getting your glyph interupted is quite annoying but not a disaster, you still have quite cheap skills and i often end up with more energy then i started after a 15 DS casting so you can still heal just fine. And your glyph getting interupted twice is VERY rare, it's still a 1 sec cast ( can't be slowed as far as i know since it's a glyph ) so hard to interupt. Especially with gaurdian on you.

Shatters arent that big of a problem, with mesmer i keep up gaurdian all the time ( costs 1 energy lol ) so that one can be shattered, or if i really need it to be up i also maintain holy veil on myself ( the -1 energy regen doesnt hurt a lot. ) This leaves you with 2 cover enchants and with only a 15 second recharge on DS ( when used with GoR ) it's not very hard to deal with shatters. CoP isnt included in the build, a great skill but i don't have enough enchants and skill slots to include it.

jummeth · Jun 19, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

I guess thats why you took mend ailment.

Still, can you keep up the pressure of pvp, w/o boon's on RoF and Guard. ie. is OoH enough healing?

but yes, its obvious that glyph is hard to interupt but, after a couple of cycles, as an interupter, I will literally be throwing everything at you after you activated your glyph. Might be problematic, since divine spirit is 45recast?

Slooty Booty · Jun 19, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

It really depends on where you use this. Strictly from an energy management standpoint, it's a fairly strong way to spam skills. From a realistic standpoint, you're using 2 skills including your elite to manage energy when you could be running something like Mantra of Recall or Energy Drain or Offering of Blood. If Divine Spirit gets stripped, you're screwed and there's not much you can do about it, making it foolish to bring into high-level pvp play or pve areas with heavy enchantment removal. Guardian is a nice skill if you're up against melee only, but it's not going to keep your team alive under pressure from any other source. I personally don't think this build to be exceptionally strong in either healing or energy management. Orison is not worth bringing with only 11 in healing, and as it's your only heal spell it's a waste of attributes as well. This build does seem to somewhat resemble a boon prot without the power that comes with boon. I'd say just stick with that and just practice if you're having energy issues.

xiao1985 · Jun 20, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

going to run a similar build, so just want to shed my idea on divine spirit spammer:

dwyana's kiss
vigorous spirit
orison of healing
mend condition
blessed aura
divine spirit
glyph of renewal {e}
restore life

attri:
divine favour: 12+1 (hat) + 1 (rune)
heal: 10 +1 (rune)
prot: remaining + rune

DS last about 15 secs long with blessed aura, and glyph takes 15 sec to recharge... original DS spammer takes staff of perfect ench for 20% longer lasting ench of DS taking it to 18 secs...

alternative is taking mend condition out for healing touch, for self heal or healing of back rank soft targets

edit: a similar build can be seen in guild wiki...

ender6 · Jun 20, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47

@OP I like the idea immensely and will be trying it out myself. Quick question why not Divine boon?

Divine 14 | Prot 13 | Smite (leftovers)

Divine Boon
Divine Spirit
Glyph of Renewal {E}
Mend Condition
RoF
Gaurdin
Holy Veil
Smtie Hex (Signet of Devotion)

would -3 energy per cast cause e-management issues? Certainly less than - 7per cast -- wonder if that would erase the need for MoR.

gabrial heart · Jun 20, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

As far as I'm concerned, this is the best build i have used for quite some time. Mix and matching mend/remove hex and the lot for all sorts of situations. It's the best possible e-managment since OoB got nerfed and to this day works the best even with ranger or ele spike groups. It's main weakenss is with degeners, blood spikes and touch rangers. Alternatively, you can run this e-management with healing as well and it would still be quite effective.

Running boon is an added enchant + guardian you rarely get stripped and still can heal pretty decently. I know that the mes builds with CoP and MoR are all the rage, but this long time build of e-management is still a winner.

gobla · Jun 20, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

@OP I like the idea immensely and will be trying it out myself. Quick question why not Divine boon?

Divine 14 | Prot 13 | Smite (leftovers)

Divine Boon
Divine Spirit
Glyph of Renewal {E}
Mend Condition
RoF
Gaurdin
Holy Veil
Smtie Hex (Signet of Devotion)

would -3 energy per cast cause e-management issues? Certainly less than - 7per cast -- wonder if that would erase the need for MoR.

Just tried it,

complete energy disaster ;p

ender6 · Jun 20, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

LOL -- I was afraid of that. Good to know.

gobla · Jun 20, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

As far as I'm concerned, this is the best build i have used for quite some time. Mix and matching mend/remove hex and the lot for all sorts of situations. It's the best possible e-managment since OoB got nerfed and to this day works the best even with ranger or ele spike groups. It's main weakenss is with degeners, blood spikes and touch rangers. Alternatively, you can run this e-management with healing as well and it would still be quite effective.

Running boon is an added enchant + guardian you rarely get stripped and still can heal pretty decently. I know that the mes builds with CoP and MoR are all the rage, but this long time build of e-management is still a winner.

Share your secret!

I made the first build ( of this thread ;p ) as a way to become a non-boon prot healer since i just suck at boon protting, i don't like it and i always mess up with it. ;p.

Ah well maybe i need some more practice lol.

gabrial heart · Jun 20, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobla

Share your secret!

I made the first build ( of this thread ;p ) as a way to become a non-boon prot healer since i just suck at boon protting, i don't like it and i always mess up with it. ;p.

Ah well maybe i need some more practice lol.

The bigest part of this build is keeping up the divine spirt, that requires the most practice. There really isn't any big secret and for TA healing it's the way to go with or without the boon. For HA/GVG you would have to have a big healer with a boon prot since this build isn't going to give you the big heals needed.

E-managment is tricky especially for a monk, dmg casters can run out of e, no big deal, but running WoH monk on 10 e or less is pretty typical for a monk that likes to spam heals unwisely.

This build offers (although arguably) the highest return on the initial 20 investment out there, even if it only last 15 seconds and has been around since almost beta. You can also try using the negative item swap for the added bonus, but this build only typically needs that when canceled. Believe me, for pvp it get's alot more complicated and harder to manage with the e-manament tricks you can run with!

For pve, prot builds are not as effective without a healing buffer. But being an effect prot monk is hard to, since you're really anticipating the damage before it's dealt. Most of the time buff up the first target of aggro and your safe (typically the warrior). If you think this builds a nightmare, try running MoR + CoP build, it's like anticipating when you're going to run low on e!

Pretty much though, you can get away with the majority of pve scenerios with a pretty typical WoH monk with no e-managment, remembering that WoH is only good when health is below 50%, so hold of those heals! A good monk is calm and reactive

gobla · Jun 20, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

The bigest part of this build is keeping up the divine spirt, that requires the most practice. There really isn't any big secret and for TA healing it's the way to go with or without the boon. For HA/GVG you would have to have a big healer with a boon prot since this build isn't going to give you the big heals needed.

E-managment is tricky especially for a monk, dmg casters can run out of e, no big deal, but running WoH monk on 10 e or less is pretty typical for a monk that likes to spam heals unwisely.

This build offers (although arguably) the highest return on the initial 20 investment out there, even if it only last 15 seconds and has been around since almost beta. You can also try using the negative item swap for the added bonus, but this build only typically needs that when canceled. Believe me, for pvp it get's alot more complicated and harder to manage with the e-manament tricks you can run with!

For pve, prot builds are not as effective without a healing buffer. But being an effect prot monk is hard to, since you're really anticipating the damage before it's dealt. Most of the time buff up the first target of aggro and your safe (typically the warrior). If you think this builds a nightmare, try running MoR + CoP build, it's like anticipating when you're going to run low on e!

Pretty much though, you can get away with the majority of pve scenerios with a pretty typical WoH monk with no e-managment, remembering that WoH is only good when health is below 50%, so hold of those heals! A good monk is calm and reactive

Hehe, i hate boon prots ;p. youre right on that ;p.

But i don't get how you dont run into e-problems with divine boon + divine spirit spam. I run OoE after about 2-4 rounds of DS reapplying. 3 energy every spell and only 3 pips of regen + 15 energy every 15 seconds is quite a lot to keep up.

gabrial heart · Jun 20, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobla

Hehe, i hate boon prots ;p. youre right on that ;p.

But i don't get how you dont run into e-problems with divine boon + divine spirit spam. I run OoE after about 2-4 rounds of DS reapplying. 3 energy every spell and only 3 pips of regen + 15 energy every 15 seconds is quite a lot to keep up.

I'm confused, Divine Spirt doesn't have an upkeep (other then the 15 @ 15 seconds and you get that back in 2-3 casts of reversal+regen) and running boon is for when you NEED to heal (remove when not needed), so you're not running it full time anyway (also makes a decent self-heal). Running a boon prot without e-management is pretty much impossible and in pve, totally uneeded, even in places like FOW and UW (unless your the only monk, eek!).

Basically, boon/prot is ALL divine-protection attributes and requires NO point investment into anything else, utilizing the fact that you can't put much into heal also and be very effective, so you're getting orision+ healing, when needed, without having the points.

The big deal here is that your already running low cost spells (5-ers), so if you get snapped, you're already running at optimum prot. If you're doing it right, you never have less then half your e (say around 20-25) and the party is staying alive (key words here is staying alive, not @ full health). The biggest problem with being a monk is that you're poised to heal and the heals are really wasted due to the fact that your REALLY trying to keep people at full health so you have time to cast a heal if they suddenly get spiked. Realistically, if you catch someone before they hit the floor, you're doing a damn fine job! Knowing what spells heal for what and how much life on the bar a player needs healed for helps alot!

So, the secret is know when to heal, trying to keep a full health buffer on the party members is going to drain you and even in gvg/ha, casters that are doing big damage can only cast so long before their e-pool runs out, so if you're wise about it, you have more then enough e to launch the assault after they are dry. 99 percent of the big damage you face in pve is initial (other then bosses with large energy pools and spamming abilities), after that you should be able to hang back and cast sporatically and not even worry about DS. So many monks go into battle and start healing when a player/hench has lost a sliver or less of their life, leaving 80 percent of the heal wasted as well as 80 percent of the e. If you don't like boon/prot (and no it's not easy without practice), then try WoH monk or SB/Infuser or Smiter/prot/air of enchant or Martyr/purge/mender...

Edit: I forgot to add... Boon/prots aren't running boon full time (as mentioned above) so for a heal say @ around 50% health it's RoF/DB/RoF snap off boon or toss around 2 or 3 more heals as needed then snap it off. In this case your talking about 1+1+3 =5e @ a heal of over 300 points, not including damage negated, not to shabby. I'm not exact on the numbers at the moment but this is close...

divine [email protected] = 48+ RoF 70 = 118 then RoF w/boon 48+ RoF 70 + DB 68 = 304
Your safe point while they still take damage is around 50% given a 510 max health.
Including damage negated up to 70 make RoF look more like 140 points of healing each.

gobla · Jun 20, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

AH!

that's what ive been missing!

I run divine boon non-stop lol.

I'll give only using it when really needed a try

.

That may just help me E-problems and make my divine spirit monk a really good one

.

sno · Jun 21, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

GoR+DS is great in theory, but in practice against good players it falls apart. You're required to cast 2 skills every 15 seconds like clockwork or the build falls apart. A good mesmer or someone with KD will see this from a mile away and either divert one of them or KD you when you try using it. If you miss one cycle, you'll be out of energy in no time with no secondary energy management. It's a nice idea, but it's VERY fragile.

gabrial heart · Jun 21, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

GoR+DS is great in theory, but in practice against good players it falls apart. You're required to cast 2 skills every 15 seconds like clockwork or the build falls apart. A good mesmer or someone with KD will see this from a mile away and either divert one of them or KD you when you try using it. If you miss one cycle, you'll be out of energy in no time with no secondary energy management. It's a nice idea, but it's VERY fragile.

Well, with guardian, KD's aren't a big deal and with a good group, hopefully any nagging warrior is blinded before he can get to you anyway. As far as mesmers with diversion, well it's a monks worse mightmare to get diverted and not notice, no matter what build you run. "WoH diverted for 20-30 seconds, omg thats the base of my build!" Plenty of cancelers out there, every class has an interupt so your always at risk of that and if MoR get's canceled/diverted your screwed there too.

It's really not that fragile, even if you get canceled on glyph you can still cast divine spirt and hope that your divine bonus recharge kicks in, even if it doesn't it still holds that nice extra pool of e before your 15 seconds are up. No build is flawless, but this is the highest return on e for the investment currently i think.

ender6 · Jun 21, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Ran it in RA, and it was horrible.

TBH -- not even worth debating.